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Frequency Lists
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Tom Hodgers
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Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 253
Location: Valencia, Venezuela via Liverpool and Manchester, England

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, and Happy Holidays.

Wakan and most other Japanese learning software use the single Kanji frequency data from the Kanjidic file.

In the original Asahi (or was it the Mainichi Shimbun?) data, it is mentioned that over a 30 year span no significant difference in the frequency was noticed except for some Kanji used in names that had possibly fallen out of favour. (Anybody who would like a copy of this data please send me a PM).

I think (similar to Tony) that because of the differences between the available frequency tables, due to the original material, Newspapers of different periods, Books, Magazines and the Internet etc. it would be better to use the school grade frequencies. Every 7+ year old school-boy, Japanese or any other nationality, is more interested in frogs than politics, and the words he starts writing will normally, of course, reflect his vocabulary which he normally learns at home, at school or with his peers and not from the local or financial newspapers and magazines. That is why I recommended the use of the Kanji Compound Word Frequency files, as in the file KG_Top6Words.zip (based on school-grades and the frequency from the KANJDIC file).

However, I don't really believe that the single Kanji data is relevant for the "Adult Foreign Learner" who normally doesn't have 9 -10 years to study to literate level, and wants to learn 2000+ Kanji in the shortest possible time. In this instance an up-to-date Kanji Compound-Word Frequency List of words used in Newspapers, Magazines and works of Literature and Fiction would be indispensable.

Sorry about the contrariness and possible ambiguity guys, but that's what makes our forum so interesting. Isn't it?

Will continue my thoughts on Kanji learning methods after the holidays.


Cheers and best wishes for the New Year,

Tom
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wakan
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 923
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

Happy New Year to you!

I think that the school (Jouyou) grades are maybe the most useful grading of kanji if you want to focus on everyday-use Japanese or if you want to pass JLPT tests (I personally use some combination of Jouyou grade and JLPT level - selectable from the drop down list on the right side of "Other"). However for business Japanese it makes more sense to go along frequency lists as soon as you master some kanji basics. Do you have access to any other single-kanji frequency data?

As for the kanji compounds, I use the WORDFREQ_CK file ("Frequency of Words Appearing in 4 Years of the Mainichi Newspaper"), which is also a source of data for KG_Top6Words and thus displaying first 6 most freq. compounds should be roughly equivalent to using KG_Top6Words. However the FrequencyOver50.jis (inside KG_Top6Words.zip) is indeed a very useful list of kanji-you-should-know. Do you know any other Kanji Compound-Word Frequency List? (for ex.based on other source than WORDFREQ_CK?)

Filip
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Tom Hodgers
Co-Admin


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 253
Location: Valencia, Venezuela via Liverpool and Manchester, England

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Filip,

Apart from the MAINICHI data that you already have, I also have the following files:

1. Word frequency data from an ESL site by Brett Reynolds of Sakuragaoka Jr.& Sr. High School (links shown on page don't work now), showing data from 20th century novels and stories.

2. Word frequency database from TAMAOKA, Katsuo et al, 2000. This table shows:
Kanji abstracted from all words printed in three major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri and Mainichi) during the year 1966 and was published by the National Language ResearchInstitute in 1976. The study sampled 991,375 kanji and, for each one, calculated the frequency of appearance in every 1000 kanji.
AND the Kanji frequency as indexed in 1998. Yokoyama, Sasahara, Nozaki and Long (1998) published frequency of occurrence data based on all the kanji in the Tokyo edition of the Asahi newspaper printed in 1993.
AND the Frequency of occurrence for kanji on CD-ROM (KF on CD). Yokoyama et al. (1998) calculated and published frequency of occurrence data for all the kanji used in the CD-ROM version of Asahi newspaper (CD-HIASK’93). It contained 110,000 newspaper articles published in 1993.

3. The Leeds corpus Internet usage files as mentioned by shinyclef above.


I've sent you under separate cover copies of files for 1 and 2.

Cheers,

Tom

p.s. Anybody requiring copies please send me a PM.
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wakan
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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Location: Prague, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

I'm really fascinated by the Tamaoka database. I think it contains really a lot of very useful information about kanji - not just the normal frequency information. For example the frequency of on vs kun readings, neighborhood frequency, kanji class, etc.

I think I should really consider changing the database structure to encompass at least some of this new information.

I have read the accompanying description and it seems to me that the cell 8 contains the most useful frequency information for students. Do you agree?

Thanks again for the file,

Filip
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Matsuemon



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:19 am    Post subject: Word List Question Reply with quote

Hey Tom and everyone who's been giving info about the word frequency lists. I've recently been hearing about these and I found the zip files, but they aren't in a .dic format so I'm not sure how to import them into wakan. I'll keep trying but if someone can point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful. Thanks!

--Jason
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Matsuemon



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:26 am    Post subject: Installation assistance Reply with quote

Tom Hodgers wrote:
Hi, Andrew.

You will find a list of the six most frequently occurring 'common' words for every kanji in each Kanji grade in the Kanji Gold - 'Top 6 Words' Files. Words that are not 'common' have been removed.

These files are designed to let a Japanese learner study just those kanji that (s)he is relatively likely to encounter with words (s)he is likely to come across regardless of whether they are included in any particular official set.

Have a look at the thread on WaKan Project Website Forum Index -> Feature requests -> Interface Fixes -> Page 2 at:

http://wakan.manga.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34&start=15


The file is KG_Top6Words.zip and you will see it below the word frequency file on the Monash page.

http://ftp.monash.edu.au/pub/nihongo/

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Tom


Hey Tom, I have Kanji gold and I extracted the lists into my Kgold folder, but how do I know if it worked or not? I'm not sure I installed the lists correctly. Thanks for your help!
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wakan
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 923
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Word List Question Reply with quote

Matsuemon wrote:
Hey Tom and everyone who's been giving info about the word frequency lists. I've recently been hearing about these and I found the zip files, but they aren't in a .dic format so I'm not sure how to import them into wakan. I'll keep trying but if someone can point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful. Thanks!

--Jason


Hi Matsuemon,

unfortunately you can't use these files in Wakan unless you're ready to convert them to WORDFREQ_CK.UNI format and create your own .DIC file based on this frequency information. In this thread we were just considering what files could possibly be used in the future, but unless anyone converts them to some format that Wakan recognizes or unless I modify Wakan's database structure to accept them as they are, you can't unfortunately use them.

Filip
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Tom Hodgers
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Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 253
Location: Valencia, Venezuela via Liverpool and Manchester, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matsuemon,

You should have downloaded and unzipped the KG_Top6Words.zip to your KGold folder (or any folder of your choice).
Open KanjiGold and click on File ---> Load Kanji.
The Open Gold directory box will pop-up.
Choose the Folder to where you unzipped. Open the file you want from TOP6WO~1 or similarly named folder.
Files should be FREQUE~1, Grade0_P.jis, Grade8_P.jis, Grade9_P.jis or similarly named.

Hope this helps.

Tom
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